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Stand Tall & Own It
Something shifted. You can feel it. You just can't name it yet.
Stand Tall & Own It is for women in the second half of life who are high-functioning on the outside and quietly disoriented on the inside. You built your life inside systems you trusted completely — until you realized you couldn't tell what was actually yours from what you'd just learned to navigate well.
Host Andrea Johnson doesn't offer formulas. She offers honest thinking, sharp observation, and the kind of conversation that makes you pull over and sit in your driveway.
This is where the real work starts.
Stand Tall & Own It
Episode 76: Creating Connections with Michelle Tillis Lederman
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Michelle Tillis Lederman is a Connection Creator - a people expert who inspires organizations and individuals to build real relationships and get real results. She's accomplished speaker, trainer, coach and author of 4 books, and has worked with organizations identifying the common struggle… people challenges. A teacher at heart, designed her own ideal career, and founded Executive Essentials, a training company providing communications and leadership programs, as well as executive coaching, to enable others to excel professionally.
Topics discussed in this episode:
1) The 7 Mindsets of Connecting
2) Leadership principle: The true nature of vulnerability
Habit: Gratitude
Green Flags:
1) If you like talking about it - GO FOR IT!
2) Do you anticipate “IT”
Advice:
1) Develop a clear vision
2) Ask for help
3) Make it a habit - ASK for help and DEFINE your vision
Where to find Michelle:
Connector Quiz: Connector Quiz
FREE: Gift Pack
Book Club: The Connector's Advantage Book Club
Website: Michelle Tillis Lederman
Facebook: Michelle Tillis Lederman
Instagram: @mtlederman
LinkedIn: Michelle Tillis Lederman
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LET’S CONNECT
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You're listening to Intentional Optimists, the podcast for unconventional leaders, where you'll find inspiration, learn to discover and develop your own strengths, and fearful inspiring women just like you who are making a difference in their community. Who knows? You just might find yourself stepping up as the next unconventional leader right where you are. I'm your host, Andrea Johnson, the original intentional optimist. Connection is vital, from the time we're born to the time we die. And by connection, I mean human connection, not social media connections. In fact, researchers have found that social isolation will kill you faster than smoking or obesity. It's literally that important. So why am I starting off with this fabulous news? Because today's guest, Michelle Tillis-Letterman, is a connection creator. She teaches others how to connect. Yes, even in this COVID or post-COVID world. And her message is so hopeful and encouraging, you'll walk away from this one ready to make some valuable connections of your own. Welcome to episode 76. We're talking about creating connection with my new friend, Michelle Tillis Letterman. Hello, Michelle. Welcome to Intentional Optimus Unconventional Leaders. Thanks for having me on. I am so excited to have this conversation. I was literally eating lunch, talking to my husband, telling him how excited I was about this conversation. Tell us a little bit about you, about what you do and how you are an unconventional leader. Because you're an author, you're a speaker, you're a trader, you do all the things. But what makes you so unique? Because I love your topic.
SPEAKER_02And I'm a recovering CPA. So I spent 10 years in finance trying to figure out what would actually drive me. And I couldn't find it. I couldn't find a way to describe what I was doing without the word money. And that's kind of what led me on a journey. So I am an accounting major, but a writing communications minor. And so when we think about the journey, we we tend to make decisions based on an anecdote to something missing in our lives, right? Think about that, right? Big major decisions, who we marry, right? Something we might not have gotten from our parents, um, you know, what job we choose, something that's going to give us something that we didn't have. I didn't have financial security, I went into finance. Right. Yep. So it takes a little bit of time for us to realize that's not what we're meant to do, or not our calling, or not our passion. And so um while kind of in this world and career, I kind of came across a lot of a lot of things that didn't work for me in terms of communication, in terms of leadership. Um and I mean I was the only woman on a trading floor. Oh.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02It was it was a really interesting place to be in the 90s. Uh good Lord. And the early 2000s. And, you know, I had I made this switch and um it was it was a slow process. So for I know you have a lot of leaders out there, and some of them are internal to organizations, and some of them are, you know, entrepreneurs and starting their own thing, and some of them are somewhere in the middle trying to figure out what it is. And I'm here to say, um it's scary, but it doesn't have to be a leap because I basically just sat on top of the fence for a little while.
SPEAKER_00I understand.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I was holding on to that finance salary as long as I could while building the business on the side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I did the same thing.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I basically got my appointment to NYU as an adjunct professor in 2004, um, started teaching in 2005 with them, and still full-time in finance. I would literally leave my job early on Thursdays and Tuesdays and go teach the class, and and everybody was cool with it. It was all about board. Um, I landed my first client, JP Morgan, in 2004, and my second one was Deutsche Bank, and my third one was Morgan Stanley. Well, when you come from finance, you go where you know. Sure. And you know, in 2008, there's a market crash. No finance companies are spending any money, you got to reinvent. So that's a little convoluted bit of my story, which is um take what you're good at and leverage what you learn every step of the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's like a wonderful little formula that we always tell people to use when they're looking at do I want to stay in corporate? Do I want to pivot out? You've got to know what your skills and your um abilities are. And then you've got to know what your passion is and what you would like to do for free and how you would actually make all of those things crosswalk and walk together in a way that provides not only a service but a good living for you. So tell us exactly what you do right now.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it depends on the day of the week. I always struggle with that question. I sometimes turn my heads and I'm like, honey, what do I do? Um, you know, I've I have a different titles. I'm an author. Uh obviously see, I have a few books behind me. Uh I'm a speaker, so I do the keynote circuit. I will go to organizations, corporations, and you know, rally the troops, teach them something, whether it's a thousand people in front of me or a hundred or even twenty. Um, so it could be from keynote to corporate training. So author, speaker, executive coach, I work with executives all over an organization's um and actually internationally now, uh, because Zoom allows that. Right. Where I help them understand um what it is that's going to help them break through to the next level. And it is executive coaching, it is business focused, but we we do kind of really think about the whole individual. Um, I'm a connection creator. I believe in the power of connection. And, you know, at my core, I'm a connector, I'm a mom, I'm an animal lover, I'm a travel junkie. My husband says I'm an adrenaline junkie too. I don't know why, just because I made him jump out of a plane on our honeymoon. Jeez.
SPEAKER_01Wow, okay. That sounds great. Um, one of the things I definitely want to tap back into is the fact that you are a connection creator. When people put those kinds of titles into their bio, it makes me want to pay attention. I tell people I'm a professional encourager, and people say, What? You know, so connection creator sounds amazing. I would like to dive into that just a little bit more. I see um is your latest book, The Connectors Advantage? Is that correct? So um that is that is something that so many people don't understand. And um part of the conversation over lunch was connection is important from the time we're born till the time we die. And I don't want to like steal any of your thunder. I'm probably not going to because you're the expert. Uh, I don't can I think I'm okay at it, but I'm eager to learn. But when I watch even my son as he grows, you know, through elementary school, it's like connecting with others, connecting with teachers. Then I look at my in-laws versus my parents. My parents were a little more insular. My in-laws, my mother-in-law is man, she moves into a new place, and in five days, she's got 50 friends. And she and she can connect any of those for any reason. Um, so I'm really eager to hear a little bit about how you are a connection creator and what makes some people special, but I'm sure you're telling us that we can learn this, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes. Um, like this is this is my heart, soul, and passion and belief in this world is that um that people make the difference. Our connections, our relationships make the biggest difference in our results. And that's what the connector's advantage is the idea that whatever it is you're working on, you're gonna get there faster, easier, and better.
SPEAKER_00Right?
SPEAKER_02The outcome will be better with and as a connector. So um, you know, you I was like thinking maybe she knows some of the stats, but I didn't hear any stats. So I want to share a couple stats with you because um, you know, coming my left brain career and and coming out of that world, people are convinced by the numbers. And the entire first chapter of my book is about proving the concept of why connecting matters and how it impacts results. And if you think about the major things that people are working on, they're working on either getting a new job, getting a promotion at the job they have, starting a new business, landing a client, um, they're working on their health, or they just kind of want to be happier. Every single one of those statistically will be improved through relationships. So um 90% of jobs, uh certainly at the executive level, and 85% of jobs at any level come from who you know, right? It's from networking, it's not from an online job search, it is from that personalized introduction.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02And like my niece today, she's uh in Spain and Barcelona, and she's doing interviews for an internship when she gets back for the semester. And she did one with um an organization that the former marketing director, so she's a marketing intern, the former head of marketing for this uh consumer products company was the best friend of her mother in high school and happens to also be my neighbor. Correct. So, you know, she has all these ins and she got the interview. You know, it doesn't get you to the job, but it gets you in the door. Um, promotion. If you have an active mentor relationship, you're 70% more likely to get a promotion within one year.
SPEAKER_01An active mentor relation? Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02Um, if you uh want to land a client or grow a business, um, people are four times more likely to buy when referred by somebody that they trust.
SPEAKER_01That no like and trust.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, I got statistics over statistics, but you know what? The ones that really shock people are the ones around health and happiness.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So um happiness, if you have a best friend at work, it is a predictor of happiness on the job and it increases productivity and job satisfaction by 550%.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02So when Gallup does their engagement survey, 12 questions to test your engagement in your in your job. Yep. One of those questions is do you have a best friend at work?
SPEAKER_01I have taken those surveys because I left university medical work and um I did that for 23 years in medical research and uh as an administrator. And at the last institution, we did the Gallup thing for probably six or eight years.
SPEAKER_00And so you know those questions.
SPEAKER_01I know every single one of the questions, and I've looked at all the stats on the questions. So when you're I'm like, oh, I know this one, right? Um, so I guess I do know some of the stats, but people um I was surprised at how many people just come to work to punch the time card and go home. And when I could look around at my staff and then look at my boss and say, Here's the stats. And if this, I mean, we knew this 50%, right? But does that person have a best friend at work? Does that person have a best friend at work? When everything is siloed, when everything is like walled off, and when it's all about, you know, the whip rather than the carrot, the stick rather than the carrot, then you don't have you don't have the opportunity half the time to develop those kinds of relationships.
SPEAKER_02So so now we're taking it somewhere else. Don't let me forget to get back to the stat on health, but um, but I want to um take what you just said because as a leader, we can curate connection. Yes, we can enable and create a culture of connection within our organization. We can value those elements. And we'll talk about the the seven mindsets of a connector. Um, but I promised a stat that will shock your listeners, which is that social isolation is more damaging to your health than and your mortality than if you had smoked 15 cigarettes a day for 10 years. As like a heart attack or overall, or basically, it's basic it's saying that social isolation will kill you faster than smoking or obesity. And this is research out of Brigham Young University. Um, it was a researcher named Julia Holt-Lunstadt, like the the you can see the the information, it's just incredible. But that loneliness, social isolation, not having those connections damages your health. So this matters, right? It does. Like it just it matters, but it just, you know, it's funny. I I do a presentation and I talk about what I used to believe and what I believe now. And what I used to say as a kid, as somebody who grew up in a single-parent home and who felt a little abandoned, I had a little chip on my shoulder and was like, I don't need anyone, right? I can do it all myself, right? And and and that isolation attitude. And what I realized now is that although I might be capable, right, it takes a village and it's okay to ask.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And not only is it okay, you need to ask, you gotta remember to ask.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna go off on that tangent for women, for women specifically. Well, men, I'm sure, have a hard time asking too, but I don't my audience, especially women, everybody has a problem. But for women specifically, I find that especially women in corporate, because we have this image to uphold, and because of all the different cultures that were in, women, if they're strong, if they're capable, we and I'm putting myself in that same boat, have an even harder time asking for help. Um, it's like we're supposed to do it all. We're supposed to have all of it and do it all.
SPEAKER_02And there's a sense of pride in that, right?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02It's like the children and the martyr.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02So um this, I do a whole chapter on so um, so let me just give you the seven mindsets and then I'm gonna tell you what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So couldn't I gotta count them so I don't forget any of those. Connectors are open and accepting, uh-huh. They have a clear vision, they trust, they come from a place of abundance, they're social and curious, they're conscientious, and they have a generous spirit. So the one we're talking about right now is have a clear vision. Because, you know, when you think about the connectors advantage, faster, easier, better results, you need to know what you're working on, what you're working towards, what your goals are. And that clear vision doesn't have to be the 10-year plan, it could be the two-week plan, right? It could be the one-year plan, the six-month plan. You know, when my when this book came out, my first goal was to get to 100 reviews. Like it was not this enormous thing. It was clean, it was simple. And when you have that simplicity, it's easier to make an ask. So the first thing is get clear on what you want.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that that vision. And then what I talk about are how to make an ask without putting the relationship at risk. And I always say, you have to ask because if you don't ask, the answer is no. If you ask, you immediately increase your odds.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And you know, sometimes we love the feeling of being able to help, right? Think about it. Everyone listening out there right now, especially those women, when somebody asks for help and you're able to give it how that makes you feel. Yeah. You feel useful, right? You feel valued, right? You feel pride. Now, when you ask for someone else for help, you're giving them that gift of all of those feelings. Right. And if you can take it from that perspective, you will be more willing to give somebody the opportunity to help you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and because then you're seeing it from a different perspective, right? You're seeing it from the perspective of, oh, I know what it's like to do that. And um, I've had that exact discussion with several people recently, um, partially because you know, we're what what are we, January of 2022? And I, you know, I don't know because when we talk about social isolation, social isolation. The social isolation and the the need for some of that because of physical distancing, but the whole idea of it, it just becomes I well, I'm watching people get completely saturated, and it's not even just that they they don't want to ask or they're afraid to ask. I don't even know that they have the capacity to ask anymore. And um, it's really hard to watch sometimes when your friends or your community members or your church members start kind of going down those paths and then they never ask for help and you don't even know that they're in trouble.
SPEAKER_02Um what do you mean by the capacity to ask?
SPEAKER_01So I I have a little bit of a theory that um we as people have a capacity for change that is kind of saturated right now. We're we're so saturated in what all the changes that are happening and all the things that are different in our lives and all the the pivoting that we're having to do, that we only have so much emotional energy to dedicate to even thinking about how do I ask, right? It's almost it's easier to just do it myself.
SPEAKER_02I hear that. So um there's a few different types of ask that I talk about in the book the opt-out ask, the convenient ask, the um non-ask, the whiff it ask. Um, but the the easiest one to go to, the most comfortable one is the opt-out. Because when you ask for something and you give the person the reason to say no, right? And I know this sounds counterintuitive because we don't want them to say no, we want them to say yes, but but more importantly, we want to protect that relationship. So if we have this one strategy that we say, I'm gonna try this one strategy once a week and make it more like an exercise, then it'll start to build habit.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02So I hear what you're saying about I don't have capacity for any of this and to think about it and that exhausts me. So instead, I want to build it as a um a muscle memory. Sure. I want us to just, oh, I have to wash the dishes, oh, I have to make an opt-out ask. Oh, I have to, right? And then it doesn't feel like this big thing. So an opt-out ask sounds something like uh, well, if you have the time, or if your company allows it, or if you think they would be a good fit, or right, so you're like you're saying, Oh, well, this is an easy excuse to say, oh, they wouldn't be a good fit, oh, I don't have the time, oh I right, my company doesn't allow it. And you make it okay for them because when somebody says no, they feel uncomfortable, they feel bad. Right now they feel uncomfortable around you, right? And you represent making them feel bad. Right. So when you make it okay to say no, then I don't feel uncomfortable and you leave your options open for a yes down the road for something else.
SPEAKER_01Right. I've even used uh another coach of mine has shared yes and no are perfectly good answers. And I use that one a lot because I want to make sure that I would love for them to say yes, right. So this may be another one of your types of asks, but you know, to just say yes and no are perfectly good answers, and then there's no strings attached, you know. And yeah.
SPEAKER_02So you're actually taking me to a another of the mindsets, which is the mindset of conscientiousness. Ah, and when you said yes, no, perfectly good answers, in my head I said they are, but there shouldn't necessarily be one-word answers.
SPEAKER_01Oh, true, sure.
SPEAKER_02Right. So I don't like um, you know, yes and no as one word answers. I love um yes if, yes after, yes when, yes with. Those are great. Yeah, no but no buck. No but, no but, no but, no but so no, I can't, but here's what I can do. No, this isn't a match, but here's somebody who could help you.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. And I've gotten, I've received a few of those answers um for different things. Um, so before we get too far down the asking and all that, let's go back to the connecting. And um, I know that you you said you're you do keynotes, you do um you do one-on-one coaching, you have your book that you've already started talking a good bit about. Um, did what did the book come out of doing all these other this other work? Or how did that come about?
SPEAKER_02So the evolution, um I started as more corporate training. So when I was in finance, I was the one who was going back to school to recruit. I was the one who was doing the onboarding sessions, I was the one who was teaching the capital asset pricing model when because finance, um, because I loved teaching, right? And that's what the topic they wanted taught. Um, you know, and so at one point I was sent to take some classes at the American Management Association. At the end, I said, hey, I'm a trainer, I want to train for you. I train on communications. And they said, well, let me see your resume. They look at my resume and they're like, no, no, no, you're gonna be a finance trainer. And I said, fine, hi, I'm Michelle. I'm a finance trainer and I want to train for you. Because for me, it was about gaining the experience of being on the platform of learning how to teach and run the room. You know, and the content wasn't my ideal content, but you know what? That's how I could get my foot in the door.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_02And I got my foot in the door and I got like 4.0 ratings as as a A leader in the programs, and finally I convinced them to let me teach in communications. And so that's kind of how it started. So I started really doing training. Then I got my coaching certification and I did some coaching, but I felt I was having more impact in the one-to-many than in the one-to-one. In, you know, and that started around 2001 was the beginning of the work. 2004, I incorporated by the end of 2005, I was fully on my own and about this pregnant. My first child was born in the beginning of 2006. He just turned 16. It's ridiculous. So I've been doing this a long time. My first book, The Eleven Laws of Likability, came out in 2011.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02So up until that point, it was doing a little coaching, doing a lot of training, you know, and just enjoying doing work that I love. And then you go and write a book that goes international. It's in 12 languages. It's been a bestseller in a few of those languages. And now you're like on stages and doing keynotes and traveling and you know, three and a half continents. And I say three and a half continents because my Australia talk was during COVID and I had to do it from home.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Very disappointing.
SPEAKER_01That would be disappointing, not get to it. Australia.
SPEAKER_02So then it became not just one to many, but one to, you know, hundreds or thousands, even. You know, and then COVID hit. Sure. And now I'm back doing a lot of the one-to-one work and finding so much. Um I don't even know what the word is for how I feel in making these one-to-one connections and relationships and being part of the progress and working with whole teams and organizations. And um so that's pretty incredible. But um I still go out and do keynotes, and I still go out and do trainings. Um, but the nice piece of it is I've gotten to be really selective about when it's me and when it's somebody else on my team. Because, you know, what I probably didn't mention is I'm also the CEO of a company, um, the company I started, uh, which, you know, initially intended just to be in the mommy business. You know, do what you love, work part-time, have flexibility. Again, you write a book and that all changes.
SPEAKER_01Um, you did mention that you incorporated, so that told me something.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah. So it used to just be um I was the business, and now I have a team of a few dozen people who I can put in to clients or coaching engagements um to make sure that my my clients are getting what they need when it can't always be me. Excellent. Can I ask your question? I don't know what the question is anymore.
SPEAKER_01Well, what I do here, and one of the things that I I do want to go ahead and pivot into leadership, what I do here is that um you are a leader in so in several areas. You're an author, you're a trainer, but you also are CEO. And so you have your own team that you've trained to go out and teach on your own stuff. But what I want to do is go all the way back because I love talking to women leaders um about kind of where they started. And it usually takes them a little bit by surprise when I ask them what their earliest leadership memory is, because um when you think, oh, well, it was back when I took this job in college, or but some have gone all the way back to elementary school with a memory that they didn't realize they had, but looking back on it now, where they are in their career, they say, Oh, that's kind of where it all started. Can you share with us maybe what your first leadership memory might be, something that you just kind of took on for yourself, or you can look back and say, I see those qualities, those leadership qualities showing up there.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, so many little different things have popped into my head from like founding an organization called Best Buddies for my university, um, or bringing that chapter onto our campus, or back in high school when you were like the editor of the literary magazine, or this or that, you know. But if I go back um to high school, I think the thing that resonates for me is um, I think it was my junior and senior year, I'm not even sure. Um, but I created something that didn't exist. And to me, that's what a leader is. I managed to design a schedule that my end of day was lunch, study hall, and gym. And I got excused from gym. So at like noon every day, I would go over to a local grammar school and in and I would volunteer in a special education classroom.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_02It was not a program that existed. I basically said I wanted to do it, contacted the teachers, asked them if they would let me do it. And every single day of, you know, one or two years of my life was spent in a special needs classroom with seven to nine-year-olds. Um, you know, there was a range of kids in grammar school. And um I just made it happen. And I I remember so many moments from those classrooms, like when I had a boy who really, really struggled to um kind of handle emotions and be social and if things didn't go his way. And I remember sitting on the comfy chair with him and talking about the word tolerance and what that means, you know, like having this really intellectual conversation with like, I don't know, a seven-year-old. Um, but that one time when I came back after like I had, you know, been gone a little bit, and I came back and all the students ran over and hugged me. And the teachers were like, they don't do this to us, you know. Um, but you know, what's interesting to me is, you know, roll forward 20 years and I had two special needs kids.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02So um, you know, that that was the full circle moment, but um for me, those leadership qualities were about having the vision, right? Um, believing it was possible, so believing in abundance, um, and you know, designing the idea, like creating the opportunity and and and making it happen. And nobody else had a story like that. Nobody else had a program like that. Like, you know, it didn't exist. There was not a single other student that ever did it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say that is a perfect example of early leadership memory. And the thing that I have discovered almost to a person, what happens is we go back and look at what they think their earliest memory is. And yours mirrors, okay, not only full circle with special needs children. And um, so and we've got several of those in our family, and um, there's ways in which it just makes your your life so much richer and more beautiful. Um, and but it teaches the adults a whole stinking lot, and so we all become very growth mindset oriented, and which is it's also a blessing. But so not only did it come full circle there, but it very much mirrors the story that you tell about, I want to be a trainer for you, and I'm gonna train in communications. They're like, No, no, no, you're you know, and granted, even though they said no, no, no, you're a finance trainer, you said, okay, I'm gonna finance trainer, and then I'm gonna eventually be a communications trainer. It's the same you designed it yourself, basically. You you you put it together yourself. And I just love looking at how our stories do that. Um, have you ever noticed that before?
SPEAKER_02No, thank you for pointing it out. Um, you know, but what's interesting is um many, many years ago I had a woman, um, a serial entrepreneur who basically cyberstalked me. She she told me, she's like, I've been stalking you, like in a really flattering, nice way. In a good way. In a good way. In a good way. Because she reached out to me and she said, I'm reaching out to you because I'm starting this group for you know women leaders, blah, blah, blah. Would you have a conversation with me? My my philosophy is always have a conversation, right? That's the connection uh mindset. So I have this conversation and she kind of interviewed me and I asked her how she found me. And she goes, Oh, I've been stalking you, you know. Um, and it was after my first book and things like that. And and one of the things she asked me was, Did you have a plan B? And she said she's been asking all the entrepreneurs, Did you have a plan B? And I looked at her like she had 10 heads. And I was like, No. Yeah. It never even occurred to me that I wouldn't succeed.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think, you know, when you just said, Oh, I I decided on something, and then I figured out how to make it happen. Now, that said, for all those, you know, entrepreneurs or wannabe entrepreneurs out there, I didn't know what I was gonna make happen. Right. I just knew I could succeed. And I remember doing things like I had eight different offerings when I was starting out, and I was like, Yeah, I don't know what I do. I still don't know what I do, right? And I said that that question's too hard. I can do whatever you want me to do. I want to, you know, at the end of the day, help people, you know, communicate to connect. I want to help people um improve their individual impact, right? Like so how is not important as what. And um, you know, so it's very interesting that that you that yeah. You just open my eyes to a trend that I didn't even realize I do, but I think that's why the second mindset I talk about in the book is to have a clear vision because you cannot drive towards results and to whatever success looks like for you, whether it is um, you know, reducing stress or uh weight or um hours or whatever it might be, if you don't have clarity on what that looks like. And I wanted to do something that I loved doing, right? And have an impact on other people while doing it. And it could look a lot of different ways. It could look like training, it could look like coaching, and it could look like speaking, and it could look like books, and it could look like being a guest on a podcast.
SPEAKER_01I'm so glad too. So um, the next question I usually ask is what was that I am a leader realization moment when you discovered that was your mission? And you basically just described that mind shift that you had. I discovered I want to make this available to people so that they can learn how to inspire others and learn how to become all they can be. That was back in what did you say, 2001, 2004?
SPEAKER_02In 2001, around 2000, 2001 is when I was working on the trading floor. Um, and you know, I don't want people to think that there's gonna be this epiphany moment. Um, there might be. But sometimes it's I didn't get from what I'm about the story I'm about to tell you to where I am now in that moment. Sure. Right. Um, but the shift happened in a moment, and it was when I was um tasked to um basically go to Tokyo, hire a coach, and prep the Tokyo branch to report to a New York-based CEO, my boss.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I went out, I hired a coach. She was making like 10 times what I was making, right? Because I paid her. And I did everything she did in mensum, and I did it just as well, if not better. And then I'm comfortable saying that. And I respect this woman immensely. I'm the one who selected her. And I was like, This is what I'm meant to do. I'm good at this, you know. Um, and sometimes you just find it. And so at the end of this week in Tokyo, the CEO, you know, we did the presentations, everything went well, and you know, the CEO kind of did our closing session, and I said to him, I can do that. And he said, Okay, but you still have to do all this. I said, Okay. Um, and that was the beginning. Okay. While I worked for the bank, he said he sent me to take more courses at the AMA. He sent me to um work with somebody who I do what he does now, but like basically to do presentation skills coaching with me. I paid thousands of dollars for him to work with me for one day. And this is a guy who worked with Reagan and with himself, right? So, you know, dating myself, but this was a big wing guy. He worked in, and so this guy invested in me to get me trained and then said, Okay, now you go you're gonna train it in New York and Tokyo, but you still have to do all our hedge fund investing, risk management, and asset liability. I'm like, okay, we're good. And that's how it started. And when I left the bank, he became a client, of course.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Well, and I hear um another piece of that story too is that you had someone, um now I remember the name of the one we were talking about before uh I interviewed her name was Catherine Canty. Um, and she's also associated with um uh Marshall Goldsmith. And because you're a Marshall Goldsmith 100 coach, congratulations on that too. Um, it's just yet another piece of your um your bio there. But one of the things that um she talked about is the difference between a mentor and a sponsor. And it sounds like what you had was a sponsor. You had somebody who was willing to go to bat for you, willing to help you get all your training, you know, and because you mentioned that you're what 70% more likely to get the promotion if you have a good mentor. So whatever you define that person as mentor or sponsor, you had somebody like that too.
SPEAKER_02Um, well, it's interesting. Those are different roles. I actually do a talk called Get Known, Get Connected, Get Ahead. And I talk about the different types of relationships that you want and need in your life, right? So we talk about um leaders and followers, right? Because you have to have um I would call them mentors and followers. You have to have people, if you want to be a leader, you have to have people who want to follow you. And we we often look up, but we don't look back. And so making sure we're looking in both directions. Um, I talk about cheerleaders and champions. And so champion would be another word for sponsor.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, and I talk about um confidants and sounding boards. So those are the three categories I talk about. Um, but I do separate out mentors and champions or sponsors because a champion or sponsor has to be internal to your organization. A mentor does not. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's that's exactly what we got out of that other conversation. Yeah. So okay.
SPEAKER_02Well, then I won't be redundant.
SPEAKER_01They can watch that absolutely. But but that's part of though what I hear that you had, right? You had this boss who turned out to do. I miss that connection. Is that the right relationship that I'm explaining?
SPEAKER_02So the funny thing is, I wasn't actually an employee, I was a consultant.
SPEAKER_01Oh dang, he invested that much in you as a consultant.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because the reason phenomenal. He said to me, he said, because at one point I'm just like, dude, when are you gonna make me an employee? Because I was full-time for the bank, but I wasn't getting benefits. I wasn't right. I was I was a contractor getting a day rate. And I I and he turns to me and goes, Michelle, your butt's gonna cost me $444,000. I'll give you a raise. And I got a raise. Yeah um, but what I realized was he was never gonna make me an employee, but he was treating me like one.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, he was my boss, but uh, but I was never an employee of the bank.
SPEAKER_01And either way, you had somebody in your corner that was willing to do those things for you and help you succeed and help you get where you needed to go and get the training that you needed. And that's all very, very valuable. And I'm going to assume that that's just part of the whole connection process.
SPEAKER_02Yes, he gave me enough rope to hang myself. And so, you know, when we when we think about, you know, getting what you want faster, easier, better, the connectors advantage, I wouldn't have been able to kick off without that relationship. I wouldn't have been able to kick off without infusing the mindsets that I teach into my interactions. And what you said in the beginning was some people are so good at it. And and I love that you said, but we can all learn it, because that's what I realized. I actually did some research behind what I thought were the attributes of a connector. And what fascinated me was the results were not at all what I expected. I thought there was going to be some clear differentiation lines between connectors and non-connectors. Um, and for the most part, there wasn't. There was one, which was connectors derive satisfaction solely from the act of connecting. Wow. And there was a like a huge, like a 17-time differential between connectors and non-connectors and how they receive value from just the act itself. But other than that, they weren't huge statistically significant variances. And what it told me and what it shifted, it completely shifted the book I wrote.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02And what it became was hey, anybody can build the skills and habits of a connector. You don't have to be an extrovert, you don't have to love people. You just need to understand what are these mindsets that we need to infuse into our interactions to enable stronger, deeper connections. And what are these habits that enable us to get from uh from here to result to success?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Um, so we'll have to have a conversation another time specifically like about the book, um, because it sounds fascinating. It might need to go on my read list this year. Absolutely does. Yes. Um, so really quick, as we start to wrap up, um, I always love to find out if there's a personal leadership principle by which you live, because you don't get where you are by not having, and you've talked about them a lot already, habits, rituals, you know, that kind of thing. But is there something that kind of helps you daily step into that mindset that you need to have, like a principle by which you live?
SPEAKER_02There's many. Um, you know, and I don't, I'm like, which one should I pick right now? Um, I'll just share kind of all the thoughts that came to my head as I was listening to you ask the question. Um, so as I said before, I did this presentation where it's what I used to believe, what I believe now, and what I've always believed. So uh things I've always believed is um you're never fully dressed without a smile.
SPEAKER_01Didn't somebody else say that?
SPEAKER_02Yes, and I won't sing it. That would not be good. Um and that there's always a silver lining. There's always something you can learn from from the bad stuff. Um but things that I didn't always believe that I have started to um infuse in and things that I live by now is that vulnerability is not about weakness, it's about openness.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And that vulnerability leads to credibility and connection. Um, I used to believe that life was tough. And you know, my childhood wasn't smooth. Um, but what I believe now is that life is good and that I'm really grateful. So a practice of gratitude is probably one of the habits that I have on a daily basis. Um, and it's something I try to infuse with my family because um one of my kids is tends to be very negative. He always thinks the worst things will happen. And so the question is, you know, today might not be a good day, but there's good in every day. And tell me about your good today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right. That's really important. We have to develop those skills young. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So um, and then another philosophy is always have the conversation, which I also mentioned earlier. Being open to connection, being, you know, open to possibility um and even probability for good. And it doesn't mean indate your calendar because I don't take every call. I just I can't, right? Um, but it is, you know, for those people who are making warm introductions, I'm gonna find time. It might be two months from now, but I'll find yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, those are some really, really good things. And you know, we line up in so many areas with my six tenets of intentional optimism. And I was even looking at your seven um, I have to go back and see what they're called. The seven mindsets of a connector. Um, you know, there's pieces of that open and accepting, trust, abundance, social curiosity. Oh my gosh. If I think if we're just curious, that is going to change so many things in our lives. Um, and the generous and conscientious spirit, um, I I love how those things we're all on the same page for all of that. Um, so you imply apply these principles, these same things. I hear you telling me you apply them in your family, you apply them in your work, you apply them in how you connect with other people. Um, so the other thing that I'm looking at this year as we talk more to entrepreneurs um before we wrap it up, is you needed um at least the support of this guy who was quote unquote your boss um to step into that kind of a new role. But you also said you kind of straddled the fence for a little while. What kind of connected support did you have in place when you actually fully went on your own?
SPEAKER_02It's an interesting question because when I went fully on my own, I was putting my husband through business school, I was teaching at NYU, I was pregnant with my first child, and I was caring for my aging grandparents because I was the power of attorney for them, moving them from Florida. So it was a really intense time. But the way I straddled the fence was that I um I had clients in place, right? I had relationships in place. So I had a relationship with NYU, so I knew I was gonna teach two semesters or two courses a year, right? I wasn't full-time, I just wanted, right? I had a relationship with Columbia Business School, which is where I went, where I was coaching some of their faculty. I had a relationship with NYU beyond the teaching, I was also coaching faculty at NYU. I had a relationship with the American Management Association where they would feed me work. I had a relationship with Rutgers University in their executive education. Um, you know, and so I knew I had enough relationships to bring in enough work to. Give me a baseline so that you know my baby wouldn't starve.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. And well, it sounds like you had a little bit of you had built in a little bit of a safety net. And you know, for you to not have a formal plan B, I feel like you had some stuff in place. Um, you had you were smart about it, right? You didn't, I mean, you were a finance person, right? So you're not you're not gonna just you're not one of those develop your wings completely on the way down, people, but um so when we talk to people too about how they make these changes or they step into something you said at the very beginning, um, you said that you believe in designing your ideal. Um, we all have red flags for things we don't want to do, but we like to look at some green flags really quickly of things that people can look for in their own lives for or their own stories to say, I could do this, or what are some things that we should look for that we would call green flags? And then maybe some advice on how to pursue those things.
SPEAKER_02Um if you like talking about something, there's a green flag, right? Okay. If you don't want to start talking about what you're doing, what you're trying to create, what you're building on the side, if you're not excited to share it, that's a red flag. If you are excited to share it, that's a green flag, right? So I always say if you're not willing to talk about it and share about it, then it might not be the right it. Okay.
SPEAKER_00That's good.
SPEAKER_02Uh green flags. You're right. It's so much easier to go to the red flags. Um, see how you feel in anticipation, right? So the anticipatory feelings are very telling. Um sometimes I do did an activity where I was analyzing the revenue streams and my offerings, and I would give a little criteria, three questions. You decide what those three questions are, because those are the three questions that are important to you. At the time, it was um, how much do I enjoy this? Um, how easy is it for me? Right? Like how natural of a skill is this for me? And then how much, you know, is it a good financial choice? Like those were my three criteria. Those aren't my criteria today. Right. My criteria today are um, you know, does this relate to my mission? Right? Is this an important relationship? And the third question is, is there any other reason that I should be saying yes to this?
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So if it doesn't get a yes from one of those things, right, then like that's that's my green flag. Having questions that that help you evaluate do I say yes or do I say no? Right. And I also talk in the conscientious chapter and the generous chapter, I talk about being generous with yourself and creating boundaries so you understand how to say yes and how to say no, and what you want to say yes and what you want to say no to, and getting right, you know, ready for that, like understanding like this is my red line in the sand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Those are really, really good. Um, so any other advice on stepping out and just kind of designing your own ideal? Um, your ideal will change. Ah okay.
SPEAKER_02So revisit what that ideal is, right? So when I started, I I was having my first child and I didn't want to travel and all of those things, you know, roll forward, and my kids came with me to Hong Kong for my first international talk in 2015.
SPEAKER_00Cool.
SPEAKER_02And we made a great vacation out of it. So ideals change. Um, and a lot of times the ideal is partially about the work, but also about the lifestyle, and you need to consider both.
SPEAKER_01Amen, sister. I mean, well, that's why we're in business, right? I mean, that's what we even if we're working for corporate for someone else, um, we earn that paycheck to have a specific lifestyle, right? I mean, there's there's so much of that to it. Um, so this has been a fabulous conversation. I knew it would be good. And I want to make sure that people know where to find you. We will put all of the links that you've shared in the show notes today. But where's the best place for people? Just immediately find you.
SPEAKER_02Well, I love that. And I love when people find me and they have to tell me that they found me on the Intentional Optimist podcast. Okay. Um, so the best place to start is my website, which is Michelle with two L's, Tillis, T-I-L-L-I-S, Letterman, L-E-D-E-R-M-A-N.com. From there, you're going to find my LinkedIn, which is my favorite of the social media. Um, so you can follow me on there. Um, and the, you know, all of the other social media platforms. I've got a blog there. Um, actually, there's some free gifts that you'll see in the show notes. There are, yes. I give away lots of quizzes and videos and all of this good stuff. Um, there's a link to book special because I believe in getting the gift to connection. So my BOGO offer is to buy one gift one.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And I sign both books. I send them to you so you can personally hand deliver that second book to somebody and give it as a gift.
SPEAKER_01So that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02But my website is my hub, and I'd love for you to find me there, and you'll see my videos on YouTube and all the other places from there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it's a nice list of links. So we'll make sure that we have all of that in our in our show notes. And this has been a delight. I can't wait to talk to you some more. I know that I know that I'm gonna learn so much from you. Before we close out, the one thing we always ask our interviewees is because we are the intentional optimist, and you said you are an optimistic, you deal in optimistic realities. So, and I love that. What is the one thing that you can always be optimistic about, even when everybody else thinks you're crazy?
SPEAKER_02My kids are cool. Um, you know, and with 30 seconds, I will share with you the reason I live in optimistic reality is as I said, I had two special needs kids. And, you know, when my kid was two and a half, three years old, they were like, Don't bother potty training him, you've got other problems. And, you know, like they were all 12 therapists that didn't have kids trying to convince me that I didn't need to focus on potty training. And I said, I believe he can do it. Optimistic reality. He just might need a little extra time or a little extra support, but he can do it. And by the way, this is a kid that is now a starter on the fencing team as a sophomore, straight A student taking AP classes and is doing fabulous. So optimistic reality, I always believe in my kids.
SPEAKER_01Hallelujah. That's awesome. Thank you so much. This has been great. We will touch face again and we will keep in touch. Thanks, Michelle. All right then, how encouraged are you now? Even if you haven't been a connector in the past, you can learn. And Michelle gave us so many ideas on what to do and how to do it. And before I share my other major takeaways from this conversation and the advice that Michelle shares, I want to show you how intentional optimism and unconventional leadership shows up in her story. Now I do this for each guest because we all live unique and different lives. And while what we do is different, intentional optimism is how we do what we do. It's the attitudes and mindsets, just like Michelle has, that we employ and embody to live out our own goals and dreams with excellence. So let's start with optimistic. One of Michelle's leadership principles or guiding principles is that there's always a silver lining. So she is that half full option girl, always looking for it. Having a generous spirit is literally one of her seven connector mindsets, which places her firmly in that tenet of being present. She's energetic, literally designing her own pathway, tapping into her industrious spirit, starting with high school and throughout her entire career. Courageous is evidenced in her resilient spirit and desire to share her vision for how to create connection in new and different ways. And that wisdom in understanding that we all deal in what she calls optimistic realities and how that affects everything we do and how we approach everything we do. And of course, she does everything with intention. There is always an end in mind. How many times did she mention a vision, having a clear vision? Now, Michelle is unconventional in her leadership because her passion to both connect and foster connection is a reflection of her core values, of optimistic realities and the importance of relationships, which makes her a fabulous role model of exactly how to create and design your own ideal and creating your own opportunity. Michelle approaches each day with the attitude of learning and growing in order to be and become something new. Because unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. Now, as an adoptive mother, I can tell you that the anxiety over this whole connection thing becomes extremely real when an infant or a child is placed in your arms that you did not give birth to. I lived with that fear and anxiety for a good 14 months. But here's the thing: as just about every other adoptive mother will tell you, connection usually happens, even if you think it won't. Without realizing it, as mothers, we tend to employ Michelle's mindsets of connection right down to having a generous spirit. Because you know you'd do anything for your kid, am I right? But as a reminder, those seven mindsets of a connector are open and accepting, they have a clear vision, they believe in abundance, they are trusting, they have trust, they're social and curious. Gosh, you know, I love that curiosity thing. They're conscientious, and again, there's that generous spirit. Which, y'all, this proves that anybody can do it, even if you don't know all the details. Now, as she said, being able to connect is not an exclusive ability or only for extroverts. But the bottom line is, whatever you're working on or toward, you can get there faster, easier, and better with connections. You just get the right mindsets to infuse into your behavior, and they're going to get you the results that you want. If you've never intentionally pursued connecting or building intentional relationships, especially in a professional environment, it can feel a little daunting. So here are just a few of her tips on moving forward, especially in light of those statistics that she shared on how important and advantageous connections are to your career. You ready? First, you need to develop a clear vision for where you want to go. This is the only way you can figure out what your own ideal is, be it an ideal environment or a career path. And it doesn't have to be your ultimate ideal. She shared her own example of starting as an expectant mother and how different her current ideal is today. It could be just for today or this week. Choose the simplest next step and move. The beauty of this process is that it helps you see what's possible. Speaking as the intentional optimist, that's right in the in right in the tenet of optimism, right? Seeing the possibilities, which then opens up all of that abundant mindset. All right, second, ask for help in getting there. Now, before you completely balk at this one, I know there's a lot of us out there that think we're supposed to be able to do it on our own. Don't forget, asking for help is giving someone else the gift of helping. And most of us feel pretty good when we're able to help somebody else out. And there's no reason to deprive others of that feeling just to avoid what you think might be weird or awkward. Yes, it is putting yourself out there and perhaps making you vulnerable. But as Michelle said, vulnerability is not about weakness, it's about openness. And the other thing is, she and I did not discuss this, I'm just throwing it out there. Asking for help is not taking advantage of others. But if that's what you're doing, you know it. So stop it. Third, make it a habit, both the ask and defining your vision. On the ask, she gave so many examples, but she was clear that there are plenty of ways to protect all your relationships when you do need to ask. For instance, the one that she said was the easiest type was what she calls the opt-out ask. For instance, if you have time, can you do this thing? Or if your company allows it. This makes it easy for the other party to just say no. And then just put it on your calendar and build a habit. Y'all know I love me some habits. This is all about muscle memory, and when you put it on your calendar, you're more likely to do it. Now, on the habit of designing your ideal, two things. First, be willing to take what you can get in order to get where you want to be. Remember her high school story? And what about when she first wanted to be a trainer? She had to train in financial stuff before she could train in communications. And then when she wanted to be a coach, she had to continue to do the financial work before she could actually just be the full-time coach. And second, revisit your ideal often. It will change. As you grow, as your life unfolds, every season will be new and different. And you know I love it when my guests give some fabulous green flags to look for. And she gave us some really good ones for how to design your own ideal. Because I know you're probably sitting there saying, well, that's great to have a clear vision, but how do I do that? And she gave three main things to look for. First, if you like talking about something, go for it. Because you're gonna have to talk about it a lot. You're gonna need to develop an elevator speech. You're gonna need to be able to tell every single person you meet, this is what I do. So if you don't like it, don't do it. Number two, see how you feel, what she said, in anticipation of it. How excited do you get when you think about the ultimate end goal of whatever it is you're thinking about as your ideal? If you don't get excited thinking about it, it's maybe another no, right? And then third, some good questions to help you say yes or no. She gave examples of when she first started, which is fabulous for people like me who are newer in the entrepreneur space. And then she gave examples of now, which is very different for her. Instead of having, you know, being an expectant mother, she's now a mother of a 16 or 17-year-old. So let's look at those two sets of questions. The then questions, which are just great questions anyway. First, how much do I enjoy it? Right? If I don't enjoy it, I ain't gonna do it, right? How easy is it? How easy is it to actually do this thing? And what is the financial advantage? When you're first starting out, you may not be able to do all the things that you want to do because it costs too much or it doesn't give you the kind of advantage that you need in order to get your business off the ground or your career off the ground, right? What if you're offered two different types of opportunities? You need to actually look at them and decide between them. But the questions that she asks later on in her career that can relate to us still, the first one is, does this relate to my mission? So when you've figured out what your mission is, then you can say, does this line up with my mission? And I would say, your values as well. Next, is it an important relationship? How important is this relationship? When you look at it in the grand scheme of things, how important is this relationship going to be? Because early on she said, I take every conversation. She still takes every conversation. I can attest to that. She's very open and very generous with her time. But third, is there any other reason I should say yes to this? And what that sounds like to me is what I call ruling something in. She's not looking to rule something out, she's looking to rule things in. How can I say yes? Does it relate to my mission? Is it important? And is there another reason that I might need to say yes? So, to learn more about Michelle, check out her website, Michelle TillisLetterman.com. You'll find everything you need in the show notes. And don't forget to tell her that you heard about her here on the Intentional Optimus podcast. Now you may have noticed that I've been doing some live masterclasses with many of my guests, so be on the lookout. Michelle and I will be doing one in a week or two after this podcast airs. If you're listening to this later on, you can find all of my guest speaker recordings in the guides section of my Facebook group. Not a member of the Intentional Optimus? Well, girl, you need to be. The link is in the show notes. Of course, you know I've opened my books, I have several one-on-one coaching slots available, and if you're ready to take control of your growth, design your own ideal, empower your voice, perhaps even step into a leadership position, you can book a 30-minute consultation with me and let's see if we're a good fit, because I'd like to help you get there. Until next time. If you're curious what it would be like to work more closely with me, or to step up as an unconventional leader yourself, schedule a free discovery session and we'll chat. But maybe you're an entrepreneur looking for a support team. I'd like to personally invite you into my collaborative community, Launch from the Beach. It could be just what you're looking for. All of my contact information and all the links are included in the show notes. And don't forget, you can always connect with other intentional optimists in our Facebook community. You can follow my Facebook or Instagram page, or even connect with me on LinkedIn. Additionally, I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter, Optimistic Living. It's good stuff delivered straight to your inbox on a not so strict schedule, but always from the heart. Remember, unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. And you, my friend, are a leader. You are the future of leadership and the role models for future generations. Until next time.
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