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Stand Tall & Own It
Something shifted. You can feel it. You just can't name it yet.
Stand Tall & Own It is for women in the second half of life who are high-functioning on the outside and quietly disoriented on the inside. You built your life inside systems you trusted completely — until you realized you couldn't tell what was actually yours from what you'd just learned to navigate well.
Host Andrea Johnson doesn't offer formulas. She offers honest thinking, sharp observation, and the kind of conversation that makes you pull over and sit in your driveway.
This is where the real work starts.
Stand Tall & Own It
34. Leading By Example - Heather Sager
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Feedback or Questions? Send us a text!
Heather helps entrepreneurs structure their ideas, clarify their message and hone their speaking skills so they can deliver magnetic live presentations, videos and workshops that grow their authority. Before starting her company, she was an executive at a top management firm in healthcare. Heather lives in Portland, OR with her husband and two young sons (who definitely test her communication chops daily).
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Trust your own internal compass - know how to trust yourself
- Stand up for what is in alignment with the goals of the organization - you or your company
- Leadership Principle - Intentionality - with your feelings, your energy, your relationships and your attitude.
- Key Habit - Take the time to SET your intentions before your interactions.
To become a better leader:
- Be willing to tell your story. Telling our stories makes us better leaders.
- Find clarity - around your vision, values and intentions.
- Enlist others to help create it.
The #1 skill that will allow you to grow and succeed is the ability to communicate.
Resources mentioned in this episode: (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases)
- THSS Podcast Ep #58 - How To Come Up With A Bank Of Story Ideas For Your Content - https://www.heathersager.com/blog/58
- FREE TRAINING FOR ONLINE ENTREPRENEURS: How to Confidently Nail Your Message on Podcasts, Live Streams & Other Virtual Stages so you can focus more on making an impact and building your authority and LESS on obsessive planning or second guessing what you say - www.heathersager.com/speak
Where to find Heather:
Website:Heather Sager
Instagram:@theheathersager
LinkedIn:heathermsager
Facebook Page:theheathersager
Facebook Community: Influential Speaking for Online Entrepreneurs,
Podcast page: https://heathersager.com/podcast
Dive in deeper with this totally free masterclass for entrepreneurs who want to speak on live & virtual stages. How to Build Authority as a Speaker WITHOUT Second Guessing What You Say. Get Instant Access here.
Get involved!
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You're listening to Intentional Optimist, the podcast for unconventional leaders, where you'll find inspiration, learn to discover and develop your own strengths, and carefully inspiring women just like you who are making a difference in their community. Who knows? You just might find yourself stepping up as the next unconventional leader right where you are. I'm your host, Andrea Johnson, the original intentional optimist. Hi there, everybody. Y'all have heard me say this plenty of times, but the purpose of the interviews on this podcast is to talk to women who are living the tenets of intentional optimism. Women who are leading in their own carved-out space and somehow making the lives of other people better. That looks just as different for every single one of you out there as it does for every woman whose story I bring to you from in here. Some are driven by a cause or a principle, and leadership is just something they grow into. Others find that leadership is their passion, which then shows up in and fuels everything they do. Today's guest is a perfect example of the latter. Heather Sager is a speaking coach who teaches entrepreneurs how to best communicate their passion in order to grow their business. But when I asked her to come have a conversation about her own leadership story, she got really excited and confessed, I love this topic. I rarely get to talk specifically about leadership. Well, all right then. Welcome to episode 34, everybody. I can't wait for you to meet my friend Heather Sager. So hey Heather, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Hey, Andrea. I am thrilled, thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01You know, we were chatting beforehand, and I remember when we first met. Um, you were scooting around with your foot in a cast, and we were at the Rise conference in Charlottesville, no, Charleston. I live in Charlottesville, and we were at a special luncheon for those of us who had attended uh Digital Course Academy. And you spoke up and automatically offered me free advice, which was the perfect role model. And I thought, oh my goodness, I need to know this woman. Um, so tell us, I've already given us a small intro to you, but why don't you go ahead and tell everybody a little bit about who you are, why you're here, um, what you do, the whole, you know, why you, why now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Okay. This is always the story that could take five hours or we can make short. So I'll give you the modified short version. Um, but I guess you could call me a speaking coach. I guess that's technically what I do. I specifically work with entrepreneurs and leaders to help them refine their communication skills so they can better connect with their audience. So when I work with entrepreneurs, it's how do they communicate with their ideal audience and attract customers? And when I work with business leaders, usually their their person they're talking to is their team. And I find the the principles of communication really hold true for both. Uh, and so for me, my background comes from corporate. I always say I'm a recovering corporate executive, turned entrepreneur. So many of us have that description, right? Yes, yes. And I I it was kind of an interesting corporate experience because the company that I worked with was started by an entrepreneur, and it was a very, very small company from the start. And in the 10 years I was there, we grew that company. We had more than 200 employees, we had thousands of clients all over North America. And we grew that company and sold it to a really large company based out of Denmark. We sold it for like $151 million. And it was incredible to take a small company in that small entrepreneurial spirit and grow it to a large corporate company. Once I realized it was going to be this giant global corporate thing, I'm like, I'm like, I'm out, I'm out. The heart of the entrepreneur is where I'm at. But that's where I really discovered like a leadership position technically. And so I was able to serve as the VP of learning and development for quite a long time, running a team of trainers, recruiters, teaching people um how to be better leaders in their businesses. And we did a lot of things from sales communication, all the fun stuff. And man, it was just a fun journey. But I'm not gonna bring those things to what I do now, but without a boss. I know you have a boss, you're your own boss. Crazy.
SPEAKER_01Well, and when you're a solopreneur, it's like, is this the best boss I've ever had or the worst boss I've ever had, right? It's like you get to Jury's still out.
SPEAKER_00Jury's still out on that one.
SPEAKER_01So again, we met through Digital Course Academy. And so you have you teach courses and you have a podcast and you have a Facebook group. But why do you do exactly what you do? Because you've taken all of that experience and you've really channeled it into something very specific. What is it about working with the entrepreneur that just really kind of lights your fire?
SPEAKER_00So if I'm being really honest, uh, it comes from this one simple thing. So I worked in corporate. And uh, so the unique thing about our company is we were a company that was a management firm for entrepreneurs in the medical space all over the country. So I worked with independent business owners. So that entrepreneurial spirit was always there. And so as the company grew, as we became more and more corporate, and I would travel around teaching, speaking, managing teams, I realized that I hated all of the political BS that lives inside a corporate company, having to like, oh my gosh, the miles and miles deep of emails every day. Secretly, I would just delete them all and go email bankrupt and just be like, start over every corner. I just sick of the back-to-back meetings. I was sick of the pace at which people expected to reply. And what I love doing was connecting with real people in classrooms, in their offices, seeing light bulbs go on when somebody clicked with something and they were able to better care for their patients or better to connect with their team. So people started asking me, like, hey, Heather, I don't understand how you're able to go from inspiring an auditorium of 2,000 people to teaching and coaching a group of three people like on a dime, and you don't seem to get tired. Like, how do you have so much energy for this? So people started asking me a lot of questions around how I did what I did. And I didn't really think it was that brilliant of a thing. But the more questions they asked, I'm like, well, I have to teach people how to speak. So it started with me helping other corporate leaders. But what I realized pretty quickly was when my clients were primarily corporate, I was still in that world of having to reply to emails, having to be available for their meetings and all those things. And I left that because I want to pick up my kid from school. I want to wear sweatpants all day and maybe put on a blazer near. Like I didn't want to be part of that world. So for me, the only solution was to make sure that I was serving people who have the same values, similar lifestyles, similar ideas of what they wanted to do. And the beautiful thing was entrepreneurs are the best spokespeople for their companies, but they don't have the confidence to do it. So I'm like, oh, I can help them. And that's kind of when the the clouds parted. And I'm like, that's who I have to work with because I can bring the communication skills, but I can work with people who are who are my people.
SPEAKER_01So when you talk about um being on stage and working with all these people, 2000 down to three, but it still gives you energy. What do you think that energy comes from? Where does that come from for you? Is it just the connection?
SPEAKER_00You know, a lot of people I hear, especially in this last year where we move virtually, people are like, oh, I can't do the virtual thing because I feed my energy off the audience. And this is where I always have to go, oh man, if you are looking to other people to find energy, you are set yourself up. You're setting yourself up to be drained at the end of it. So energy comes from within. My one of my biggest mentors, Brendan Bruchard, I'm a certified high performance coach. I've done a lot of learning under him.
SPEAKER_01I didn't know that until I heard it. You recently say that. And I'm like, oh, well, now that makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_00I love it. I love it. I am a lifelong learner, a lifelong student, huge into professional development. We'll probably talk about that a lot today. Personal development is huge in leadership. But one of the things that Brendan always says is he likens his energy to a power plant, right? Where a power plant doesn't go find it, like they create and generate their own energy. And I see that the same in me. I have to bring energy to anything that I do. So sure, I drink coffee, but I also work out. We were joking, I went for a run right before this interview today because I'm like, I got a long day of interviews. I have to make sure that everybody gets me at my best. Right. So for me, it's my attitude, it's my enthusiasm, knowing that people who listen, they're gonna do something with it. I have to light a spark in other people. And in order for that to happen, I have to be a spark. So energy for me is a mindset piece, it's a physical body piece. I totally have to bring my own energy. And I find, as surprisingly, an introvert, I have to be really intentional with it. Otherwise, I will be totally wiped up, but wiped out. But when I'm on stages, like I'm on fire, I can teach for five days straight, nine hour days, and I will be like so happy with it. I will be just as peppy on day five, maybe a little loopy in how I'm speaking, just as energized on day five as I am on hour one, day one.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I completely relate with that. And we talked earlier about how I love to highlight women who embody the intentional optimist tenets. And number three is energy, and it it kind of folds dovetails perfectly in with that. And part of that is because I have also learned from Brendan Burchard, I am not a high performance certified coach, but I have been through high performance coaching with somebody from his team. And but for me, when I hear somebody talk about that, I automatically know they've got their values in alignment, they know what they want, they know where they're going, therefore they can create their own energy. So I loved how you put all that together. Um, and I love the fact that you're highlighting that you're an introvert and you're doing all of these things. Um, so speak to that really quick before we get into the full leadership stuff, but that can be a piece of it because people think that you have to be an extrovert to be able to talk on stage or even just do a podcast or interviews. And that's not really the case.
SPEAKER_00No, it's it's not. In fact, I know a lot of introverts who shine on stage. And I I don't know, this is maybe a weird analogy, but I like to think that all of us have this really, we have this brilliance within us, and we have to figure out a way to channel it. So for those of us who are super introverted, like we could channel it all in like one heavy dose. We go live on video or we're in front of an audience. But the other time, like if you find me in like my peer mastermind, they always laugh because I will join and I will sit there quietly for 47 minutes of a 60-minute thing, and somebody will finally go, Heather, what's going on with you? And then I'll talk. But I am not a like I I was always the quiet kid in the classroom. And I think part of it was I hate when people speak up just to hear the sound of their own voice. Right. Like one of my biggest pet peeves is when somebody would say something in the class and then somebody else would literally say the same thing. And I'm like, why are you saying? Like, you don't need to add. So I only add to the conversation if I have something unique or if I see something happening that nobody else seems to be pointing it out. Right. I will speak up for it. Right. And uh, so yeah, so I've been on the dividing line of every personality test I've ever taken. So I'm a very confused, I don't know if I'm like high energy, low energy. I don't know on the disc assessment, I'm right in all the quadrants, Myers Briggs, I'm right in the middle. So it's it's kind of like it's I got multiple personalities happening, but I don't know. I just you've got to figure out what works for you, but you have to change the narrative. If you think because I'm an introvert, I can't do X. Right. You can do whatever the heck you want to do, but you have to change the way you talk about it to yourself.
SPEAKER_01Right. And you and I have joked about the fact that we both have done disc stuff. I'm a certified disc consultant. You did a lot of disc and John Maxwell teaching when you were doing corporate training. I did. Um, and we also joked about the fact that I'm I am right in the middle. I'm an IE on the Myers Briggs. And maybe that's part of what just makes us unique. But um, before we get into your earliest leadership memory, because I love talking about that kind of thing, and you have an extremely unique story. So I'm excited for people to hear it. Well, at least the people that haven't heard it yet, because you you tell it often. But um I wanted to share uh how you and I actually have this a little bit of a you didn't, it's like a mentor by proxy. Um, because I was listening to when the pandemic hit and we were all working remotely, I was listening to your podcast, which is quite good. And it's called the Heather Sager Show. But if you go back further, it was called something else. Um and that's a story you can share if you want. But um, I remember hearing you say, I think you were you were talking to Crystal Prophet probably, and um, I remember hearing you say, Is podcasting your next stage? And I was outside finally, now that I'm working from home, cleaning the weeds out of the garden around my pool. And I thought, I just stood up with my earbuds on, talking to nobody and said, Yes, actually it is That's the vision.
SPEAKER_00When you're speaking to someone on a podcast, you're like, I hope someone is giving me an amen somewhere.
SPEAKER_01You know, it never really occurred to me, but part of being a leader is helping other people see that vision, right? Part of being courageous is when you have a vision sharing it, whether or not you know where it's going to land. We don't. It's our job to share the information and let the fertile soil pick it up where it's supposed to, right? So I remember thinking, I do. And then you followed up, of course, with an email, which uh I haven't followed suit in that just yet. My email list is still languishing, but you know, one step at a time. Um, but you followed it up with an email and I just responded and I said, You bet this is I'm doing this. This is my I am, I love to talk, right? You can hear me. I just enjoy it. I'm comfortable. Um, I was never the quiet kid, right? And I what's odd is that I actually test out on the introvert scale as well, too. But I was never the one that wasn't talking. I was the one whose seventh grade science teacher threw one of those erasures across the room at me saying, Would you please just stop talking? Hey, God breath. Well, I mean, and it hit like the the elemental calendar, the the whatever that thing is called, you know, the that tells us all the the periodic table. That's it. It hit the periodic table on the wall. And I thought, gosh. And but I've always been told, stop talking, be quiet. And so finally to have a place where I said, oh, this could be where I could actually share my thoughts, where I could share my vision, where I could share my philosophy, which is turning into a personal growth plan. So I emailed you and I had just finished watching a funny movie. Um, it was a kid, we do family movie night every week, and um, it had this big humongous dog in it. And this little girl actually called this big mastiff dog, they renamed it because it was John, it's a John Cena movie, which tells you something. And um, she renamed it Sparkle Pony. And I thought to myself, because you had put like a little unicorn um icon in there, and I said, Yeah, thankfully, like you know, like almost uh the sparkle pony, you know, just kind of like a dear Abby kind of letter. And you were so encouraging. You you emailed me back immediately. You have been an encourager and a mentor to me. So publicly I acknowledge thank you, but at the same time, I want to point out how that's leadership in itself, right? You are actually leading by example doing those things. So um, I don't know what you remember about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let me let me say something because this gets me thinking. I see a lot of conversations with specifically entrepreneurs, but I think this applies to anyone who's a leader. I think a lot of times we're so we're ingrained to think in the business setting, get the results. We're thinking outcomes, get the results, get the revenue, hit the numbers, whatever it is, right? We're ingrained to think that way. And what I find, especially with entrepreneurs in the coaching space, in the uh education space, everyone's thinking about how can I capture the sales. I do the podcast because I want to grow my audience so I can sell. I want to have a Facebook group so I can get an engaged audience so I can sell. I want like we're always thinking about what's the conversion rate. And for me, first and foremost, I am a leader here to serve and make an impact in the world. By doing so, I know I will make money. I'm confident in that. I'm sure I set targets and numbers, but I think what you just described, like it touches my heart so much. When you sent that email and then relived it, like, thank you so much for sharing that. Because I think so often we forget the impact of our work. And something in that, like, let's just put it for the record here. Andrea has never bought anything from me. Like, she's not one of my clients. She is a, she's one of the people in my audience that I serve. And I love up and serve and encourage her just as much as I do my private clients. Like, and I think that's one of the things we have to think about is how can we show up and give and be of service and and have heart and and care for people without this expectation that they're going to like convert into something. Never once was I thinking, ooh, I'm gonna get Andrea to get a podcast and then I'm gonna pitch her my no. Because I think when you're a true leader, you figure out how do you help other people grow, how do you do what's best for them, and then have the confidence that when the time is right, your paths will cross and you'll figure out how to make money together. I think that needs to be said because I think so many people are driving their decisions, driving their behaviors with other people with this objective of something. Double check your objective and make sure it's a service-oriented one, not a revenue generated one. Breach. Breach. Very passionate about that. Right.
SPEAKER_01Because, and you're right. I mean, and I've attended quite a few masterclasses, and you have a lot of there are several entrepreneurs that I pay close attention to, and they are the ones who are, and Brendan teaches this as well, but they're the ones who have um just really high value. And every time I get value, I then turn around and give, right? It inspires me to turn around and give. Um, and I think that that's the perfect segue into leadership because, like I said, I have ladies on here that are leading like an intentional optimist. And um, you just hit on like four of the different. I know, yeah. I wish when we put this on YouTube, y'all can see. Um, but I talk with my hands all the time. Um, but you hit on four of the main tenets of intentional optimism, and one of those is service, and you know, so it's thank you very much for sharing that.
SPEAKER_00Um we're each other's people.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Um, so let's go back to your earliest leadership memory. To, I know you're I've heard your story several times, and I'm not sure exactly where you're gonna land with what is your earliest leadership memory, but um I'm gonna share one that you've actually never heard before.
SPEAKER_00Please. Yeah. So when I was reading, I was thinking through when you sent me this note, like, hey, I really want you to think back to this. There is a very clear memory that I have as a child. I think I was in like third or fourth grade. And so, mind you, I was an extremely shy child. I'm the youngest of six kids, and everybody else talked for me at home. I was like a clown character, but as soon as we left the house, I would hide behind my mom's butt. Like I would just stand behind her. And I remember terrible. I feel bad for my mom, but I'd always be like, Mom, you have a flat butt. And I would always like spank it behind her. Sounds so terrible as a mom now. I'm like, oh, I was the worst. Anyways, I remember my mom was a seamstress and I did a lot of sewing. She taught me how to sew when I was three years old. So I learned how to sew, and that was a big part of my childhood. And in the third grade, in art class, we were the craft we were doing that week was we were making these pillowcases. And of the pillowcases, they had brought in these special crayons that you would color the white fabric and then you would take it over and transfer it with an iron over, or you color the paper, and then it would be transferred with an iron. Right. And I remember sitting around the table with a couple of my best friends in the third grade, and I was carefully taking my time, drawing the scene with clouds. And you know, the trees, when you were little, you'd always draw a tree with like a hole in it. Like that was like the classic drawing that with a hole in it with the brown trunk. I was drawing that. And my friend next to me was also drawing this uh, like this scene of a horizon. And I remember she finished first and took her drawing over the teacher. And the teacher goes, you have to color in every inch of that piece of paper for the transfer to work. And she was so disappointed because she drew a horizon. She didn't want to color the sky like it was gonna mess with her things. So she came back, she was super upset. So she ended up coloring it in. She hated it, it looked terrible. And so she went back, she hated her pillow. And I remember sitting there and I told her, I was like, you don't have to do that. She's like, Well, the teacher said I did. And I go, I'm sorry, but the teacher is wrong. I do this all the time at home with my mom. You do not have to fill in every inch of the piece of paper. That's just wrong. And she's like, Well, it's what she said. So I told her that before she colored in. She colored in, ruined her dry, and she was mad for the first day. So I went up with my piece of paper, which was not following the quote unquote instructions of the teacher, to which she tells me, I'm sorry, you have to go back and do it. And I looked at her and I go, I appreciate that you think that, but actually, I don't. It'll work just fine. And she goes, No, like you have to. And I remember. So I don't love confrontation, but I've learned as a leader, I'm actually really good with confrontation. But like you get this quickening of your heart, right? Where your throat starts like going up and you feel like your red like drives down your chest, and you start like shaking a bit, but you're like, I have to say it anyways. So I remember like shaking. I was a tiny little stick kid. Remember shaking and just going, I'm sorry, but no, I will not do that. It will be fine. Watch. And I'm like, oh, ballsy kid. But this tiny little thing, I remember. I stood off with her. And at this point, it's like the movie moment where the rest of the classroom is like quiet, watching, and they're like, oh, it's about to go down. And I could tell this teacher was like flustered. She did it, and it was totally fine. Pillow was totally fine, which I knew it would be because I did this all the time with my mom. But I remember walking back to the desk and like sitting down with this quiet, like smug confidence about me. But I was like, when you know, you have to trust yourself and follow your gut, even when you're gonna make somebody else uncomfortable. And I remember that as my earliest memory of going, you know what? I have something within me that tells me when I believe of something, I need to listen and not let somebody else's opinion influence it. And I attribute that to be the very first moment when I discovered that I was a leader because I knew I had something within me that I was willing to listen to, even when it made other people uncomfortable, even with like everybody else would do what the experts or the teacher said. I knew that even though it was uncomfortable and make me sweaty and shake and even like cry when I would get uncomfortable, I had to do it anyways. And like that is the earliest memory I have of really speaking up or standing out. And I always think of that moment. And anytime I feel nervous, I'm like, if third grade Heather can do it, I too can do hard things.
SPEAKER_01That's amazing. I mean, to think that you can actually go back to that and and feel those feelings and the way you described it too. I'm thinking, oh yeah, I feel that all the time. I also don't like confrontation. But I love the lesson you took from it. And I I can see that confidence in you and I see that throughout your story and some of the other things that you've done. Um, but the whole trusting yourself, is that a big piece of who Heather has become as a leader? Does that play all the way through? Is that the thread that kind of goes through some of your other story? Do you mind sharing just a little bit of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, 100%. So I think I think about, okay, so when I was sitting as an executive with C-suite executives from multi-billion dollar companies, I remember sitting there and I would sit at that table and I would hear the group things start happening. I would hear people trying, like obsessing over the profit and loss statement, trying to figure out where things went wrong or what the solutions were. And somebody would have an idea and they'd all go down this rabbit hole. And I would see these highly paid, highly educated, smart people, mostly men, sit at the table and go down these rabbit holes that were in the opposite direction of what we were actually there to do. And that same feeling would come up and be like, at the time, who am I? I'm a 29-year-old kid, like little girl in this room, which is just screwed up to be thinking that in general. But it's it's how you sit when you're a woman at a table, especially a younger woman at a table filled with middle-aged white men. I remember sitting there, and early in my career, when I first got at that table, I was quiet. And then that feeling would eat at me for days of going, oh, I should speak up because we're going down the wrong path. So what I was always the person who then goes, I'm not going to be the liked person, but I sure as hell will be respected. So I would always raise my hand and say, I would put a caveat on it and be like, I know we're going down this path here, but I want to ask the question, is this conversation still in alignment with why we're here for the meeting? And just posing the question and going, like, I can't help but think that maybe we veered off course. Or I can't help but think, but something's here. And even if it was interrupting the CEO of the company, even like even if it was going to make somebody else embarrassed because, oh my gosh, yeah, they were caught red-handed doing a weird side tangent. I would always do that. And I remember the CFO of our company, him pulling me aside and going, you know, Heather, the one thing that I really respect most for you is you speak up even when it's against the grain and you always speak up for the better of the company. And I'm like, I do do that. But that's like I don't just speak up to have my voice, like I speak up when something's happening that is out of alignment with the goal. And I think that's one of those things. You have to listen to your voice and go, is that voice telling me what's going to make me comfortable? Or is that voice the thing that's going to tell us what's actually right? Or the thing that needs to be voiced that nobody quite yet is brave enough to do. You have to step up and be that brave person.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's something that most of us have to learn. And not many of us, not many of us are courageous enough to do that. Um, and I'm wondering personally, how do you determine the difference between those things?
SPEAKER_00So let me share with let me share with your audience a story that I think you were wanting me to share around that, because I I think it goes back to having perspective around what the what the motivator is behind something. So another another childhood thing. So part of my story, I mentioned my mom earlier was a seamstress, I say was, because she passed away when I was in high school. My mom died of breast cancer when I was 17 years old, just before my 18th birthday. And I remember that last few months we had with her, when she was in hospice care in our house, we decided for her very last Christmas present that we were going to start a nonprofit organization in her name. We called it the Clara Jean Foundation, which was my mom's name. And we started that nonprofit. I won't get into the details of it, but it was essentially around how to help women who were fighting breast cancer find alternative treatments to help with their conventional plan. So this was before alternative or holistic medicine was really mainstream and we thought it was cool. This was when it was like, heck no, you follow your oncologist's word. My mom went a little bit of a different path after years and years of fighting cancer. But we wanted to help women find a voice. So we started this nonprofit, my six siblings and I, we co-founded it. We hosted our first fundraising event. It was like three weeks after my mom died. And then we needed to start fundraising. And I remember we booked this, uh, we booked like a 10-minute talk at a charity event a few months later. 18 years old, me, not even graduated high school yet. My brothers and sisters, they call, but their their kids all call me the fancy aunt, which makes me laugh. But they like shoved me and said, Heather, you're gonna be the spokesperson. And I'm like, I'm a child. Like my oldest sister was 30, like 12-year gap. There's so many people. Why would I speak? I'm 18 years old still in high school. And uh, that's when I realized they knew within me that I could articulate myself. And I was super nervous. I was still a really shy kid despite the incident from the third grade. I was still super nervous. I was still super shaky. I would still cry when I would get uncomfortable in front of people. But I realized this really important lesson that when it comes to speaking to other people, like speaking up and using your voice, some people are drawn to that spotlight. Like they want to be heard. Others are called into it. And that called into it is that deeper knowing that there's something that you need to share, a different perspective that you have, something that someone else isn't quite brave or ready enough to share, but you are, and you're feeling that pull for that. The question is, are you going to allow yourself to be uncomfortable and do it anyways? And I think the more you do it, it's like a muscle. You have to exercise doing that. But I've learned speaking up and sharing and adding the caveat of I'm super nervous right now. I don't quite know how to say this, but that's allowed me to get more and more comfortable. But I always can get really, really quiet. And I feel this deep need to share because it's going to be helpful to other people. I know I have to speak up. But if I'm like, oh, I think this, it's not quite a deep pull that I need to share. It's more of a word vomit that it has to come out. And that's more of like an opposite problem, right? It's like, shh, put it back. So that for me, it's like, you know, when there's something that is, whether it's racial injustice or there's something happening where somebody else is being treated unfairly, or the business is going in a different direction and you can see the train crash coming, but nobody else seems to see it. You know, like you know deep down when those moments happen, it's just whether or not you're going to be brave enough to actually speak up. Because if you don't, who else will? You can't rely on other people's courage, but you can rely on your own. You just have to step up and do it.
SPEAKER_01That's great. Yeah. And and part of that too is it they may, it may not be just that they don't have courage. It may be that they don't see it. Right.
SPEAKER_00100% with that. I think that's one of those things. It's the whether it's timing, whether it's the perspective shift, there's some reason that you're the one getting that pull. Right. So you have to make the decision. Are you going to go against the grain? I had to learn very clearly. You have to choose, do you want to be liked or do you want to be respected? And I think that's a really important decision as a leader. You have to make because if you just want to be liked by people, that's not leadership. That is not leadership. A leader has to be willing to be unliked. Not all the time. Like if you were a hated leader, I would argue you're doing something wrong. But you have to be willing to have moments, just like parenting. You have to be willing to toe the line and make your child angry because you're doing something that's for their best interest in the long term.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's really good. Um, so as we kind of pivot more into how you truly live out leadership, which I feel like you've been telling us this all along. Yeah. Do you have, and a lot of people do have a principle that they live by, and some people don't articulate it well. But do you have one principle that you say that you would say, other than like this speaking up or stepping up encourage, is there an underlying principle for that that really just kind of guides you in everything that you do?
SPEAKER_00I think the word intention comes to mind, which is perfect for this platform. That has been a word that has stuck with me for a really, really long time. I think so often we leave our we lead our lives in reaction mode, especially when you're a leader with a lot of burning fires in a company in your own business. There's always going to be tasks and demands of other people to do. A good leader, how I show up is going, how do I be more intentional in my relationships, in my energy, in my attitude, in how I treat others and the strategy, like the word intention to me goes hand in hand with leadership. And I think I think that if we were all just like five percent more intentional, we would be so much more fulfilled and happier with how our lives were lived. So for me, 100% intentionality.
SPEAKER_01And it resonates 100%. People ask me, like, which of the six tenants is most naturally you? And I'm like, intentional. It is because, you know, and I love the way Brendan Burchard says the best time to have a map is before you go into the woods. And so just having even just a little bit of a plan, just having a little bit of when when you look at your values and you look at your strengths and you say, these things are what I have, how am I going to live them? Right. And um, so I love that. Um, so when you apply that attention or intention to the way you run your business and the way because you we talk, we joked kind of earlier about how you teach other people to speak, but you don't always get to talk about leadership. So when you you and I joke that solopreneurs are the ultimate leaders because they're leading absolutely everyone they talk to and they're leading themselves. So, how do you apply that to your life and work when you um you did talk about your energy and your relationships and your attitudes? What are some tips maybe that you or some habits that you have that kind of help you play that out every day?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So with the intention piece specifically, a few of the things that I focus on is I think a lot of times people think intention means planning, right? It means I'm gonna plan out everything on my schedule, I'm gonna plan out all my project. That's like one aspect of it. For me, I plan like with intention, feelings. So how do I want to feel? But most importantly, especially when it comes to me engaging with other people. So if I have a team meeting, if I have like after we're done with this, I have office hours inside my program, speak up to level up. I always get really present. The one intention that is a requirement habitually in my life is every time I do a video, a meeting, an anything, live interaction with another person, I go, what's the goal here? What do I want people to feel? And who needs me to be at my best in this moment? Those are questions that I'm always asking because even if I haven't prepped, even if I don't have like the outline or even know the questions in advance, I know that if I focus on how I want other people to feel, everything will be okay. Because what happens, I think a lot of time, this is a random side tangent, but I'll say this because a lot of people get caught up in this. Speaking, uh, talking about speaking, people get so nervous. And it's because they're totally focused on their own feeling. So when you just go, how do I want other people to feel? the energy shifts and you can no longer be nervous and focused on yourself. So I think for me, like the most practical habit is set your intentions of how you want to feel, how you want other people to feel. I do that every morning and I do that throughout the day every time I set up a conversation with another person.
SPEAKER_01How did you teach yourself to ask that question?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, how did how did you teach it? I mean, because that's not something we automatically do. We automatically think about ourselves, right? That is, does that make sense?
SPEAKER_00This, so okay, so this is this is as simple as it comes. So in my old world, we talked a lot about personal development, but there really wasn't a lot of personal development available to us as like we were the ones teaching it, right? So I learned, uh I learned really early in my career that my limiting factor was going to be myself. That I'm like, okay, I have to do something different. So I was hungry. I found um John Maxwell, which he was a big person we talked about, but I started consuming his books, going, how does this apply to me? I started uh listening to Michael Hyatt, his old school podcast that was amazing. I loved it. Uh, I started listening to him all the time. And what I would start doing is bringing personal development into my team. And I would start doing book club with my team and sharing what I was learning, asking them how they would learn. I would foster this environment. And how I learned how to be more intentional was when I would have a conversation. So I have this problem, um, RBF, resting, not so nice person face. Uh, I have a very narrow face. And so what I and I have an intense voice, I have a lower voice for a female, so it can be a little intense. So, what I found is sometimes when I'd have conversations, even when I had the biggest heart, if somebody didn't quite receive something as intended, I'd go, oh crap, what did I do wrong here? And it's always in the reflection after that you realize what you could have done better. So I just said, what if instead of me regretting or running the play real after and for the first time going, how can I do it better next time? What if I flipped the script and said, What if I took two minutes on the front end and asked those same questions, got more intentional, and then still reflected? And I just tried it and it worked really, really well. And that for me was just, it was primarily out of how do I not be so um gripy like that? Like, how do I how do people feel what's on the inside, which is compassionate and warm? And you hear that in my voice now, but it took me a long time to really practice that. And it was after some really hard reflection that maybe I'm not coming across as compassionate and warm as I thought I was. Well, necessity, that's how I learned it.
SPEAKER_01And that's brilliant, right? I mean, the what's the necessity is the mother of invention. So whatever we, whatever we need, usually we come up with the answer if we're willing to look for it, right? And I love that the I love the flip the script. Um, and you know I'm a John Maxwell team certified speaker trainer coach. So that resonates with me. Um, but what I really liked was you said you reflected and then you said, how could I do it better? Well, why don't I just do it better beforehand, right? Why don't I just and people a lot of times don't want to even, they just want the experience, they don't necessarily want the reflected experience, they don't necessarily want to do that. But that goes into the whole proactive thing. We and proactivity is part of intentionality. It just has to be when you think ahead, that's how you change your behavior. So I thank you. I love I love that principle and I love that you were sharing it. Because here's the thing, Heather, your smile is like I don't, you have these and you have on gorgeous red lipstick. Um, but your smile is huge. Anybody that goes to see, like your picture will be on the podcast page and that kind of stuff. But um, you have this amazing smile. And for me to think that you had this kind of resting, not so friendly face um is amazing because I've never seen it. You've managed to like completely remove that. And I have it too. Um, I remember back in grad school, I was in seminary, and I remember going to a church and sitting on the because I sit on the front row because I get very distracted. So I I noticed everybody else doing everything else. So I learned long ago to sit on the front row. And I was way up in the front on one side, and friends of mine that I didn't realize were there were way up in the front on the other side. And after church, they said, You looked kind of like angry. And I'm like, I did. No, I really enjoyed it. This was really good. I loved it. It was good teaching. And I that's when I realized I have a really intense face. So this is something I relate to well. It is the thinking. Definitely the thinking face. Um, okay, so that is that your habit or ritual? Is that the thing that that actually gets you um exactly where you want to be?
SPEAKER_00I think here's the thing there's a lot of habits, and uh of all the things I've learned in the last year, with all the schedule changes, with the pandemic, uh, we can go on and on with that. I've learned to be less precious with my habits. I've learned that I cannot be so rigid and focused of going, I have to have the perfect morning routine or I have to have this. But what I can commit to is being intentional with how I show up for other people. And that to me is a non-negotiable. So the other habits ebb and flow. My workouts, my journaling, my whatever meditation, when and if I do that, like all those things ebb and flow. But for me, if I can stick with being intentional, here's the thing. I think all of us at our core, we're wicked smart. Like we know deep down how to treat other people. We know what we need to do. It's just we don't do it because we're not thinking about it. So if we can develop the habit of just thinking before acting, that one habit can change your world. So for me, yeah, that's the one habit I'm gonna stand on all day long.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's very important one. Um, and it's it's always the one that's learned after the fact, right? Yeah. Um okay, so you have a very um specific career and you do very specific things. Um, so in a minute, I want you to tell us a little bit about where people can find you and you know what kind of programs you have, because um that that's incredibly important. But if somebody wanted to get into the kind of work that you're doing, um, even if it's just working with entrepreneurs or if it's specific to leadership, you choose. But you know, a lot of people we look back and we say, Oh, I wish I had seen those red flags. I would never have done that thing. Here on the Intentional Optimist podcast, we like to talk about green flags that point the direction to something because I think those are just as invisible to us sometimes. Um, I we talk about the fact that we don't realize we have an inspirational story until we start telling it and other people tell us that it resonates with them. So, what maybe are some green flags that you can share with our audience to say if you have these things that kind of resonate in your core, you might want to try this stuff.
SPEAKER_00Okay, this my brain goes in so many different ways because I'm like green flags towards becoming an entrepreneur, green flags towards becoming a coach. I'm gonna go with something as simple and say green flags in terms of sharing your story to help other people. Because I think I I get a lot of questions. I have some, I have some interesting stories that I share, whether that's the death of my mom and what I've learned from it. I have a hearing loss. I talk often about that. I think a lot of people ask me, hey Heather, how do you how do you take things that have happened to you and share it for good and not just for internal, just not expressing it for therapy? I think therapy is important, but sometimes we want to share a message for a bigger purpose. So if you've ever had a thought where you've endured something and somebody has talked to you about it and said, I can so relate with that, you might have a story that resonates with other people. Um, if you have ever had a moment where you've heard someone speaking on a podcast or a stage and you're nodding your head and you go, I feel exactly like that. If that moment has happened to you, you could be the person to make that moment happen for other people. You see, I think a lot of times people think that, oh, I don't have a big enough story to share, or nobody's interested in my story. They just want me to get to the like, teach me how to do something, teach me the steps, teach me the process, teach me the rapport, whatever it is. And I'm a huge advocate of storytelling because at the end of the day, we're all human and we all crave connection. And I think if we get better at telling pieces of our story or telling stories in general, we become better leaders. We become better connectors with people, we inspire people in a different way that isn't just do this thing and you'll get this result or meet this objective. Let's all rally around this vision. When you can use stories, particularly your stories, to rally people around the vision, that matters. So that's what I would say. Green flags, if you've ever had those feelings where something that you've shared have made people laugh, connected with them, you should do more of that. But you do not have to be a keynote speaker, you do not have to be a professional speaker, you don't have to go out and do a podcast tour. You can be a speaker in your own life. You talk to people every day, you may as well do it on purpose. You may as well incorporate things like storytelling to inspire people in a different way. So maybe a little roundabout way to answer that question, but that's what kind of came to mind for me when I was thinking about the green flags.
SPEAKER_01No, that's great. I love it. And that's the one thing that constantly comes up, even, you know, just sitting in my when I was in an office, sitting in my office, and a staff member would come in. And I've I'm just one of those touchy feely listen, you know, I do tell my story. I'm one of those, when you look at the strengths finder, it says, you tell your story all the time. And I'm like, I know, people tell me, people tell me to stop. But no, the ones that really resonate are the ones that come back and say, I remember that time when you shared your story. Like for, you know, for me, it's infertility and adoption or gastric bypass surgery or those kinds of things that I don't, or growing up on the mission field overseas, you know, but that people. didn't necessarily know and they feel seen, right? It's they it's sharing your story gives them the opportunity to say, Oh, I'm not alone. I'm not, this is not just just me going through this. So that's really good. Um, now pieces of advice. If you're gonna say the green flags are for story, um, what advice would you give somebody who is interested in kind of leading in the same way that you do?
SPEAKER_00There's so many, there's so many things that come to mind. So leading the same way. Okay, so I think clarity is the first thing that we have to think about is clarity in terms of what are we trying to do? Like, and I'm gonna go business perspective, right? So whether you run your own business or you have a team, I think a lot of times, and speaking from experience in a fast growing company, we were we were building the plane as we were flying it. And I think most companies, if we're perfectly honest, move in that way. But I think as leaders, sometimes we're sitting there like, we don't quite know what we're doing because we're moving so quickly. So finding space and quiet for you to sit down and going, what's the intention here? Set the intention from your for your team, both from the numbers objectives, but then also the feelings, values, and how you want things to operate perspective. Like that for me, you have to set those non-negotiables around what things are about. That's number one. And then number two, I think we all need to do a better job at eliciting other people or enlisting other people into that plan and having them help create it. So one of the things that I did, I have a hair in my mouth. Hang on. This natural, real natural life here. Uh, one of the things that I did often as a leader was I would meet with my team and I would state the objective, get their buy-in with it, but then ask them, help me paint the picture. How are we gonna do this? What are some of the non-negotiables? What are some of the things we need to create? Like I would pull them into it and I had to make this shift from thinking, I had to be the idea person because I love to be the idea person. I had to move and go, it doesn't matter if I have the most brilliant idea. If I don't empower my team to be the idea people, they're not gonna be fully invested. So what you have to do is work as a leader to shut your mouth. Like you have to, well, you start by opening, set the pace, but make it short, and then get better at asking questions and not just formality questions to get the yes or no or check the boxes, but ask questions and genuinely want to hear from your team. So asking questions to pull people in. If you are a solopreneur, sometimes those questions are gonna be questions to your audience. You do not know better than your audience. And the moment you start thinking that is the moment your business is gonna start going downhill and you're not gonna get trashed. So getting really good, setting clarity, like getting intentional. There's that word again. Uh, and then asking good questions to figure out how do you enlist others, whether it's your audience or your team, those are two really, really important things. Uh, I think I'll just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_01Just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_00Just leave it at that. Like those whole workshops on their own. But those those to me have been instrumental both in my corporate days, but also as an entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_01Really good. Um, so for sure, I want to make sure that people know where to find you. Of course, we're gonna put all that in the show notes, but tell us what you've got going on because you have a lot going on.
SPEAKER_00It sure seems that way because I've gotten really good at online marketing. I think you got to make people feel like you're busy and you're aware, but also it's an intentional thing to create like the life that you want. So I'm not actually working as much as people think I am, and that's by design, coming back to intentionality. But we do have some pretty fun things happening over in my company. So if if the idea of speaking, if the idea of personal growth and communication is something of interest to you, um, Andrea mentioned my podcast. That's a great place to land on. So the Heather Sager show, you can find all about it at heathersager.com forward slash podcast. But one of the episodes that came top of mind as we were talking that might be valuable for your audience is uh, I don't remember the episode number. So Andrea, I'll send it to you so you can link it. Okay, but I have an episode around how to come up with stories that you can use. So when we were talking earlier about share more stories as leaders, we all think they have to be big stories, but actually the everyday little micro moments, those are the ones that your audience and team need to hear. So I have an episode around how do you actually extract those stories and start keeping a little archive of them so you can use them in your team meetings or if you do speak in corporate settings or on stages. So I think that would be a great place to start, but that's where we jam out on all things. How do you become more magnetic? How do you communicate your intentions more effectively? That's a great place to be. And then I'm on all the social media platforms. So I'm at the Heather Sager everywhere. Uh so find me there if you want to connect. I love hearing from people, how my story resonates with them. So send me a message and let me know what you loved about today's episode.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I'm I've actually heard the episode you're you're referencing. It's actually quite good. Um, and it's one of the things that has helped me go back and find stories from my own past that I was kind of discounting, right? I mean, especially somebody who grew up as a missionary kid. I think how many people can relate to that? Here's the interesting thing: there's part of the novelty of that that they can't relate directly to, but they actually find fascinating. So um there's all kinds of ways to pull our stories. Um, but uh definitely um I can also attest to the fact that, as we shared at the very beginning, that Heather responds to emails. That's it's really her. As a matter of fact, she even responded with a Loom video um where she's like, I do better talking, um, which I'm totally the same way. Um, so are there any like, I know you have some freebies. I've taken advantage of them myself and we'll link to those. Is there anything that you want to share specifically right now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think a lot of times people ask me, Heather, how do you do what you do? Like, how do you show up so confidently and share your message seemingly off the cuff on podcast interviews and other things? So we just put together, my team and I just put together a free training around how to confidently nail your message on podcasts, virtual summits, um, like any kind of virtual stage that might come to mind. So that might be of interest to you if you're trying to figure out how do I show up with more intention. There's that word, to talk about the things that matter, especially if you're trying to articulate yourself as a business owner. So that's available right now. We'll give you the link to that. It's Heather Sager.com forward slash speak. And that's in by the time this airs, that'll be an on-demand training that you can just watch. You can watch it on your phone, you can watch it on your computer, wherever you want, you can do it on demand and binge it like Netflix.
SPEAKER_01And that is so timely right now, right? And the the idea too that we've all had to pivot from any kind of in-person speaking, because when we first met, um, I was getting literally, it was in November of 2019. No, was it 2018? 2019. 2019. The years they just kind of run together right now. Um, it was in November, and I told you I had a speaking engagement in in December. And you specifically asked me, are you using that to actually build your business or are you just sharing information for information? And uh it made me think, right? Um, but it was on it was in person, and then I had another one in January in person, and of course, I've been listening to you ever since. And um, as soon as, of course, March a year ago hit, we all had to transfer completely to virtual. And so I think that the way you share the information on how we show up, these are all stages. Every single one of them are stages. Whether or not you're standing in front of 2,000 people, to know that your podcast has, you know, 1500 downloads means that's 1500 people you've spoken to, right? It's and whether or not a Facebook Live has two people on it at the moment, but when you go back and look at it, it has 130 views. That's 130 people you've spoken to. So this is really good training. It's a lot of fun. And um, you've, Heather, you always are very engaging. And I love that you're just extremely 100% yourself and you love joking. And I think that the fact that you make speaking um and being yourself the norm rather than trying to be some kind of specific, polished robot. Um, so anybody who wants good training on just how to show up as you, Heather doesn't try to make you as anybody else. I mean, granted, I've not actually taken the program, but everything that I have sat through with you, Heather, you are really good about making sure that we actually do that. Um, before we get to the last bit, is there anything else that I didn't ask you that you would wanted to share?
SPEAKER_00I uh you you nailed it. And thank you, by the way, for the really, really kind words. I think, I think that piece when you're talking about the virtual stages are all around us. For anyone who's listening who's going, I don't really consider myself a speaker, or oh, I don't, you know, I don't really plan on being on podcasts. I really encourage you to think about this idea that anyone who is a leader, which I would argue we're all leaders, we start with leading ourselves before we lead other people. We have to be more intentional with the words that we use and how we communicate with other people. And by that, we are all speakers. Whether or not we get paid to do it, or we use it to grow our business, or we're marketers, none of that really matters. We're all speakers. And the number one skill that helped me go from starting my career as an events coordinator to running all the events in my company and running an entire department of that company that sold for $151 million, I attribute that number one thing that catapult me there was my ability to communicate and not just communicate my ideas, but communicate with other people and help them draw their ideas. So don't discount yourself for a second. If you are scared to speak to other people, or even worse, if you, like we were joking, you like to talk and you talk for a long time, you also need to work on speaking because I bet maybe you word vomit a little too much on people. So speaking is an instrumental skill. Being able to communicate effectively, that is one of the top skills a leader needs. So if you're listening to this, you might want to go back and re-listen or go think some of those episodes. And whether you learn from me or someone else, I don't care if you buy my programs or like that, might be a fit. But I hope that you today go, you know what, of the skills I need to grow, communication is one of them. And you go pick up a book or you listen to a podcast or you do something because if you can better communicate, oh, that is the domino that will start tipping other things in your life. And I'm just so passionate about that. So that's my mission is more people being able to communicate effectively, I think will make our world a better place.
SPEAKER_01I 100% agree. Applause. Woo! Clapping hands. Um, okay. So before we close out, the one thing that I love to ask, and I've gotten all kinds of answers, is um, what is the one thing that you, Heather Sager, can always be optimistic about, even when other people think you're totally crazy?
SPEAKER_00This is gonna be a really weird answer, but my ability to dream. Oh, my ability to dream. I I've always been a dreamer, a storyteller. Even as a little kid, we'd always tell ghost stories on our trampoline with a fire next to it in the backyard. We've always told stories. And the one thing, even when I'm feeling defeated, when I'm feeling frustrated, when I'm teaching people how to speak on live stages and the entire world cancels every stage for the foreseeable future, I can still dream. And I dreamed by saying, well, stage is just a platform to share your message. We pivot, we help people with podcasts. Like I know that when the generic thing, when one door closes, another one opens, I know that to be true in my core because I know my imagination and creativity will always be there, even if it feels like everything is falling apart for me. At any moment, I can change the world around me by changing my thoughts. And for me, I can always be optimistic on that, even in my life's hardest moments. I always know my imagination and my ability to dream is there, and then I can go out and create it. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you. Thank you for dreaming and sharing with us. Thank you for challenging me personally. And you didn't even know you were doing it. Um, so so I thank you for your message. I thank you for being here. Um, this has been delightful. I knew this was going to be a fun conversation, and I know that we have a lot of really great stuff for people to uh take away. Um, so again, thank you so much, Heather. It has been a real pleasure having you on the show.
SPEAKER_00You're welcome, Andrea. You're doing an incredible thing here, and your audience is so lucky to have you. You really exhibit everything that you teach. Thanks for much for including me here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, what did I tell you? Leadership is the thing. I knew this would be a great conversation. Heather's always genuine and authentic and is super generous with her time, attention, and information. And she's proven over and over again she's committed to leading by example. She's a great role model, and I think everything she shared today had that ring to it. If you didn't notice, you weren't paying attention. So, how does Heather live the principles and values of intentional optimism and unconventional leadership? Well, she's one of those ladies that certainly lives them all, but let's break it all down. First, Heather is definitely optimistic. She purposefully pursues positivity and hope, and even shared her ability to trust in her own intuition as early as the third grade, displaying a confidence many don't have at my age. Heather's present. She's generous with her time, expertise, and absolutely loves to connect with real people. Her one thing she can be optimistic about is her ability to dream, which is just another way to say she's completely tapped into celebrating wonder, which ironically keeps her more present. Now Heather exudes energy and has even figured out that she can generate her own in order to perform the way she needs to, and to help the people she wants to. That's big. Heather's wise. She knows who she is, she knows how to communicate with others, and helping them figure out who they are. She's willing to speak up for what she sees is right, even when it's hard, especially if it's out of alignment with the stated goal of the meeting or the organization or even her friend. Which speaks to her courage. Heather leads by example and shares her vision, what she sees or what she thinks she sees, to help others grow through serving them and helping them learn to lead to. But I think of all the tenets, I have to pick one that Heather embodies most, and that would be intentional. It's even the one thing she named as her leadership principle. She knows why she does what she does and sets her intention at the beginning of the day. She then revisits that before each meeting, and she knows how she wants to show up in each situation. She decides what kind of feeling she intends to create, deciding what kind of thoughts she will have. Imagine that. She decides beforehand. Then she still does a review to see how she could decide better the next time. That is a habit to adopt, folks. And let me tell you, I have. I started doing this earlier this week and it has made a difference already. Now, Heather is unconventional in her leadership because her passion to help entrepreneurs communicate their message completely aligns with her core values of intentional leadership and service to others. Heather's an exceptional role model, showing rather than just telling, even bringing Book Club into her team early in her corporate career, teaching them how to pursue personal growth. She's a lifelong learner, which speaks to her own personal growth, and she always asks the question: how does this apply to me? Unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. And Heather is a fantastic example of how to do that in a very public way. Now, I want to take the opportunity here to point out how Heather follows her own advice: role modeling, leadership, wisdom, and courage. You see, after we stopped recording, she called me out. Now, I'm not sure if you noticed it, but early on in this conversation, when I was sharing how I responded to her question of whether podcasting would be my next stage, I mentioned my email list and how it was languishing. But when we stopped the recording, she looked me in the eye and said, girl, never do that to yourself. First, never compare. And second, if you've got something to fix, just fix it in your own time, but don't talk yourself down in public. Take your own advice and live it. I thought, dad gummit, I'm gonna have to tell everybody she did that. She didn't do it to me on the recording, she did it afterwards. She confronted me. She stood up for what she knew would be in alignment with my values. So, kudos, Heather. Living it out right there. So, yep, you see, she walks the walk. That's the kind of leader you want to emulate, folks. This conversation was so rich and full of amazing tips. I found it a little tough to write the summary. But here are some takeaways that really stuck with me. Heather was excited to talk specifically about leadership because she's usually focused on teaching as a speaking practitioner. So her green flags and advice are about how to become a better leader. First off, be willing to tell your story. Telling our stories makes us better leaders. You talk to people every day. You might as well be intentional about how you can help them. And many times telling your own story opens up a bridge for communication that wasn't there before. They see you as approachable. Number two, find clarity. Again, how many times do we say this? Take the time to step back and think about what result you want to have. Look at your vision, your values, your intentions. If you do this for yourself on a regular basis, then you can then turn around and do it for your team. Number three, enlist others to help you create your vision. Ask them to help you paint the picture. Empower them to ask good questions and genuinely want the answers. I had to do this recently with a team member. It's really easy to decide what you want in your head. And when they don't automatically respond with that answer, you shut them down. But if you say, I want their answers, and you genuinely ask open questions, you'll be surprised at what other people will come up with. But if you set the stage for them and then start asking good questions, they will come up with something that is maybe way better than you would have thought of. Plus, they're completely bought in. Number four, the number one skill that will allow you to grow and succeed is the ability to communicate. You see, all leaders are speakers. Whether you're talking to two people or two thousand, you need to be able to communicate. You can follow Heather on Instagram or her website, and trust me, she's a great follow. And we've included all those links in the show notes. But let's talk about your leadership role. What are you doing to develop yourself as a leader? Are you sharing your own story in order to better connect with those that you want to serve? Look, like Heather reminded us, you need to be willing to be intentional about it. Check out Heather's podcast, episode number 58, we've included in the show notes, and it's called How to Come Up With a Bank of Story Ideas for Your Content. Now, maybe you're not a content creator, but sometimes you need to just remember what your stories are in order to be able to share them in a leadership context. And this is a great resource, trust me, I've listened, it's a really good episode. Plus, don't forget to check out her free training for online entrepreneurs. If you're an online entrepreneur listening to this, you want to know how to confidently nail your message on podcasts, live streams, and other virtual stages so you can focus more on making an impact and building your authority and less on obsessive planning or second guessing what you say. And that's all included in the show notes, but it's Heathersager.com forward slash speak. Another tool that can help you communicate your message is the Maxwell Disc Behavior Report. You can dip your toe in with my Ultimate Disc cheat sheet, which is in the show notes. But if you truly want to understand your own communication style and how you can best communicate with others, you need your own report. So just head to my website, the intentionaloptimist.com, and click the yellow disc button right at the top. Then you're on your way. I offer three levels of disc support. On top of that 30-page report you'll get, you can book a one-hour debrief. And if you want help applying what you learn, I have a set of three coaching calls to help you implement your own personal growth plan. Now maybe you're ready to make some changes, get a little growth action going, but you need the support of other like-minded women or just a safe, happy place to hang out and learn. Then you should totally check out my Facebook group, Intentional Optimists. This is a community built on a culture of thinking and living with intentional optimism. There are multiple learning opportunities each month, and Heather will be joining us this week as our guest teacher, so you won't want to miss it. But if you do, it'll be recorded and available under the units tab. So join us. The link for that one's in the show notes too. Plus, be on the lookout for a group coaching opportunity for high-performing mission-minded women, think big dreamers who want accountability and goal strategies, and a brand new membership community in May. Of course, it is truly a privilege that you choose to spend time with us each week. And if you value what you get here, share it. Snap a screenshot and share it on Instagram or Facebook or wherever you spend your personal screen time. But tag me and we'll connect. And don't forget to subscribe wherever you listen because that way you'll never miss an episode. And would you do me one last favor? As soon as you're done here, go leave a review and a rating. That way you can tell Apple or Google or Spotify that this podcast is worth telling other listeners about, and it'll help them find it more easily. Remember, unconventional leaders lead at every level, in any area, using their unique gifts. You are a leader. You are the future of leadership and the role models for future generations. Until next time. Hey, thanks for listening today. If you're an intentional optimist and you love this podcast, please subscribe and leave a review with a five-star rating. You can also snap a screenshot right where you're listening, share it to social media, and tag me. This helps others find us and will have an even bigger impact. If you're curious what it would be like to work more closely with me or just to step up at an unconventional leader yourself, invite me to schedule a free discovery section to uplift me. Just email me at intentionaloptimist.com. If you're looking for an encouraging and uplifting community updates, hop on over and join the intentional optimist group. Encouraging women of all political elements. Community and email links are right here in the show description wherever you listen to the podcast. Until next time, you are the answer. You are the future of leadership and the role model for future generations.
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